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    THIS IS IT

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    EMPATHY
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    THIS IS IT

    Post  EMPATHY on Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:25 pm

    Finally watched This is it and the fraudulent Michaels Basketball yes I watched it all through which I never got to do before.

    Michael is the one in the tracks pants and he is in another couple of clips, the rest of them are not him.

    I had to be sure, and now IM SURE.

    IM VERY VERY VERY SURE.

    They were good though, very good but unfortunately - you cant make silk purse out of a sows ear...


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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  EMPATHY on Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:26 pm

    Kenny Ortega, naughty naughty naughty.... lol!


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    butterfly

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  butterfly on Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:31 pm



    They were good though, very good but unfortunately - you cant make silk purse out of a sows ear...


    lol!

    Was it the different size ears of all those "MJ's" that got your attention??

    lol!


    Now that one in the fancy red pants always aroused my suspicion..

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    lovemj2

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  lovemj2 on Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:38 pm

    EMPATHY wrote:Finally watched This is it and the fraudulent Michaels Basketball yes I watched it all through which I never got to do before.

    Michael is the one in the tracks pants and he is in another couple of clips, the rest of them are not him.

    I had to be sure, and now IM SURE.

    IM VERY VERY VERY SURE.

    They were good though, very good but unfortunately - you cant make silk purse out of a sows ear...


    lol!
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    EMPATHY
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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  EMPATHY on Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:44 am

    Well, as soon as I 'saw Michael' I knew it was him and he was dressed in the Grey Jacket white flapping shirt and had on a dark jacket with some black pallazo track bottoms.

    You see the one thing that made me think was the MOVEMENT.

    If you watch the hand actions and movement of Michael in the clothes described above and watch his hands and arms you can see he moves like a ballet dancer. If you watch some of the others you can see the movement is contrived and exaggerated. There is no 'grace' not the same grace or fluidity of movement that Michael has. Dam anyone can see that Michaels dancing has some kind of naturalness about it and the other ones there were stiff.

    They knew the movements but they just dont have that extra 'slide' or 'slickness' MJ has. Michaels moves with his hands are expressive, the others were too quick and aggressive.

    Also you can see that Michael dances with his age and the other Michaels show that they are younger as their energy in movements is too quick.


    I feel Joe is right when he also said doubles in the movie.

    But if you think about it, why should there not be doubles? Movements had to be gone over again and again with dancers. Michael needed to save his voice, maybe he also saved his FEET and in went the doubles to trace hte movements just to keep rehearsals going while he had a rest?

    Both the OH and I spotted immediately that none of these people were all Michael. I felt it from the start when I first ever laid eyes on clips of this movie and I was saying WTF is going on here.



    But now I have seen this film I believe that if Michael is any one of these people the one I could say he WAS definitely was the one dancing in They dont care about us in the grey suit and also definitely the one in the black tracks.

    There is a scene where I think he did wear the silver Jacket but there are more scenes of the silver Jacket MJ that I do not believe was him. So its very quick but you have to try and spot. I could be wrong, but I do believe Michael was in that Film but he was not all the Michaels that we saw.



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    butterfly

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  butterfly on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:18 am

    EMPATHY wrote:Well, as soon as I 'saw Michael' I knew it was him and he was dressed in the Grey Jacket white flapping shirt and had on a dark jacket with some black pallazo track bottoms.

    You see the one thing that made me think was the MOVEMENT.

    If you watch the hand actions and movement of Michael in the clothes described above and watch his hands and arms you can see he moves like a ballet dancer. If you watch some of the others you can see the movement is contrived and exaggerated. There is no 'grace' not the same grace or fluidity of movement that Michael has. Dam anyone can see that Michaels dancing has some kind of naturalness about it and the other ones there were stiff.

    They knew the movements but they just dont have that extra 'slide' or 'slickness' MJ has. Michaels moves with his hands are expressive, the others were too quick and aggressive.

    Also you can see that Michael dances with his age and the other Michaels show that they are younger as their energy in movements is too quick.


    I feel Joe is right when he also said doubles in the movie.

    But if you think about it, why should there not be doubles? Movements had to be gone over again and again with dancers. Michael needed to save his voice, maybe he also saved his FEET and in went the doubles to trace hte movements just to keep rehearsals going while he had a rest?

    Both the OH and I spotted immediately that none of these people were all Michael. I felt it from the start when I first ever laid eyes on clips of this movie and I was saying WTF is going on here.



    But now I have seen this film I believe that if Michael is any one of these people the one I could say he WAS definitely was the one dancing in They dont care about us in the grey suit and also definitely the one in the black tracks.

    There is a scene where I think he did wear the silver Jacket but there are more scenes of the silver Jacket MJ that I do not believe was him. So its very quick but you have to try and spot. I could be wrong, but I do believe Michael was in that Film but he was not all the Michaels that we saw.



    ======================


    As a professional in the trade I DO value your keen eye !! Takes one to know one !! Thank you dear !!


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    lovemj2

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  lovemj2 on Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:36 am

    EMPATHY wrote:Well, as soon as I 'saw Michael' I knew it was him and he was dressed in the Grey Jacket white flapping shirt and had on a dark jacket with some black pallazo track bottoms.

    You see the one thing that made me think was the MOVEMENT.

    If you watch the hand actions and movement of Michael in the clothes described above and watch his hands and arms you can see he moves like a ballet dancer. If you watch some of the others you can see the movement is contrived and exaggerated. There is no 'grace' not the same grace or fluidity of movement that Michael has. Dam anyone can see that Michaels dancing has some kind of naturalness about it and the other ones there were stiff.

    They knew the movements but they just dont have that extra 'slide' or 'slickness' MJ has. Michaels moves with his hands are expressive, the others were too quick and aggressive.

    Also you can see that Michael dances with his age and the other Michaels show that they are younger as their energy in movements is too quick.


    I feel Joe is right when he also said doubles in the movie.

    But if you think about it, why should there not be doubles? Movements had to be gone over again and again with dancers. Michael needed to save his voice, maybe he also saved his FEET and in went the doubles to trace hte movements just to keep rehearsals going while he had a rest?

    Both the OH and I spotted immediately that none of these people were all Michael. I felt it from the start when I first ever laid eyes on clips of this movie and I was saying WTF is going on here.



    But now I have seen this film I believe that if Michael is any one of these people the one I could say he WAS definitely was the one dancing in They dont care about us in the grey suit and also definitely the one in the black tracks.

    There is a scene where I think he did wear the silver Jacket but there are more scenes of the silver Jacket MJ that I do not believe was him. So its very quick but you have to try and spot. I could be wrong, but I do believe Michael was in that Film but he was not all the Michaels that we saw.


    I said it from the get -go, many did not like it either... but I also got it that there was reasons for it. But after time I went deeper down that rabbit hole about doubles and such. The fans should stop with the " he wouldn't rip of us like that " to understanding , or asking themselves why and if they love and "know" MJ so well to respect what he might have had to do..
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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  starfish on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:12 am

    I felt wave... geek ... I love you
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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  starfish on Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:03 am

    EMPATHY wrote:Kenny Ortega, naughty naughty naughty.... lol!


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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  EMPATHY on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:06 am

    In answer to Lovemj2 - I think the problem is that people 'see what they want to see' and fans will do that. Most fans are still thinking of MJ as hot young stuff of 30 years of age, but he clearly is not. Everyone likes a bit of dignity when they get older even if they dont feel old. 50 is not old by any means but you do have a different mindset and habits can linger as well as comfort zones becoming important.

    You just dont want all the same things when you are 50. I doubt very much that MJ wanted to spend the rest of his life on a stage doing those kind of shows HIMSELF but at the same time I have no doubt whatsoever that he would want to be INVOLVED in other ways. We all progress as we get older and move to different areas of the business. Michael had far too many professional abilities and angles to be a pin up on a stage forever.

    I dont think he could ever have wished to stop dancing, but maybe as one gets older there may be reasons why we dont do that 'as much'. Michael had other talents and gifts to offer as well.

    But who knows maybe Im waffling out my backside and completely wrong but its just what I feel regarding being an entertainer. Sometimes you do want to diverse and you can feel that current scenes are not for you. Rod Steward is singing Jaz now but it has not altered his popularity it just means that he is not that hot thang he was years ago. He does not need to be he is a wealthy old tight assed scotsguy...ha ha lol! but I will always like him for being the way he is....

    Regarding Mj who knows? he already has been thought to have said he did not agree to 50 shows, so he would not have intended to go back on stage banging out gigs like a boy in his prime, I just dont believe he would have done that - for all the reasons I may have mentioned already. He did all that for years and then he took a lot of years off....sometimes its good to dabble again but to be under pressure to stay in the gig arena? No I dont think Michael was desperate for that side of things.


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    lovemj2

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  lovemj2 on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:46 am

    EMPATHY wrote:In answer to Lovemj2 - I think the problem is that people 'see what they want to see' and fans will do that. Most fans are still thinking of MJ as hot young stuff of 30 years of age, but he clearly is not. Everyone likes a bit of dignity when they get older even if they dont feel old. 50 is not old by any means but you do have a different mindset and habits can linger as well as comfort zones becoming important.

    You just dont want all the same things when you are 50. I doubt very much that MJ wanted to spend the rest of his life on a stage doing those kind of shows HIMSELF but at the same time I have no doubt whatsoever that he would want to be INVOLVED in other ways. We all progress as we get older and move to different areas of the business. Michael had far too many professional abilities and angles to be a pin up on a stage forever.

    I dont think he could ever have wished to stop dancing, but maybe as one gets older there may be reasons why we dont do that 'as much'. Michael had other talents and gifts to offer as well.

    But who knows maybe Im waffling out my backside and completely wrong but its just what I feel regarding being an entertainer. Sometimes you do want to diverse and you can feel that current scenes are not for you. Rod Steward is singing Jaz now but it has not altered his popularity it just means that he is not that hot thang he was years ago. He does not need to be he is a wealthy old tight assed scotsguy...ha ha lol! but I will always like him for being the way he is....

    Regarding Mj who knows? he already has been thought to have said he did not agree to 50 shows, so he would not have intended to go back on stage banging out gigs like a boy in his prime, I just dont believe he would have done that - for all the reasons I may have mentioned already. He did all that for years and then he took a lot of years off....sometimes its good to dabble again but to be under pressure to stay in the gig arena? No I dont think Michael was desperate for that side of things.

    LOL! No one ever stays a hot young thang.. i know they still drool over gold pants.. but just who was in those pants? We may never know, but I too highly doubt that MJ was not in the background the whole time helping to build "The Micheal Jackson " brand.

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  Lemonbread on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:29 pm

    I personally think that Michael Jackson the Filmmaker/Director/Producer wanted to have a documentary done on Michael Jackson the King Of Pop. But he might have been wondering who he can trust and do the film justice like he wanted the documentary to be. So with the dedication and loyalty of many fans (that is including doubles)he can let the fans see the man that we never knew. In this documentary, he can give his input from his experience in life and have the fans see what it took the preparation to become the King of Pop and be on tour, rigorous dancing, the costume rehearsal and all of the behind the scenes of tours. We the fans will be getting an personal view/perspective from the man himself. Do you an authorized autobiography(if that is possible) with the real truth and with love. Come to think of it, I think this was his next step into this medium. Never in the history of entertainment industry have you find an authorized autobiography done on a superstar, written, directed, and produced by the superstar.

    TAKING IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL
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    butterfly

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  butterfly on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:23 pm

    Lemonbread wrote:I personally think that Michael Jackson the Filmmaker/Director/Producer wanted to have a documentary done on Michael Jackson the King Of Pop. But he might have been wondering who he can trust and do the film justice like he wanted the documentary to be. So with the dedication and loyalty of many fans (that is including doubles)he can let the fans see the man that we never knew. In this documentary, he can give his input from his experience in life and have the fans see what it took the preparation to become the King of Pop and be on tour, rigorous dancing, the costume rehearsal and all of the behind the scenes of tours. We the fans will be getting an personal view/perspective from the man himself. Do you an authorized autobiography(if that is possible) with the real truth and with love. Come to think of it, I think this was his next step into this medium. Never in the history of entertainment industry have you find an authorized autobiography done on a superstar, written, directed, and produced by the superstar.

    TAKING IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL



    Absolutely !! The Man is a Genius... sunny
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    starfish

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  starfish on Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:53 am

    starfish wrote:
    EMPATHY wrote:Kenny Ortega, naughty naughty naughty.... lol!



    THIS IS IT - Running time 111 minutes... lol!


    The film's director and choreographer Ortega...Kenny Ortega answers the controversy about body doubles in "This Is It"...cough...
    http://www.michaeljacksoninsider.com/ortega.htm


    ...Interesting....
    ''Concert director Kenny Ortega sent Phillips an e-mail five days before Jackson’s death referring to Jackson’s fear the company would “pull the plug” on the tour. The e-mail triggered a meeting with Jackson and Dr. Murray to address Ortega’s concerns about Jackson’s “lack of focus” and missed rehearsals, with the debut of his London shows just three weeks away.
    He and Ortega were satisfied when Jackson told them “You build the house and I will put on the door and paint it,” suggesting he would be ready, Phillips testified.''[i]

    [i]
    ''If the tour was canceled, Jackson would have to pay for all of the production and rehearsal costs, Phillips said, although the judge would not let him tell jurors how much that might have been.''
    ...

    http://www.tmz.com/2011/02/01/kenny-ortega-michael-jackson-aeg-wrongful-death-lawsuit-katherine-jackson-dismissed-jackson-family/

    http://www.mjjunderground.com/2011/01/08/kenny-ortega-i-didnt-cause-michaels-death/


    Kenneth Ortega 1st witness.
    http://www.rosespeaks.com/tag/producerdirector-kenny-ortega/



    It seems to me that Joe always said that he knows more than he speak....
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    EMPATHY
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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  EMPATHY on Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:39 am

    Too right he does and Tarot suggested that in August 2009.


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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  Guest on Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:53 pm

    very interesting points being made here. I thought from an early stage that the King of Pop was laid to rest- as a brand or whatever, And then when I watched This Is It it seemed like a documentary. I thought three were doubles but didn't find this strange as the artist needed to 1. see how the acts looked from a spectator point of view and b. conserev his voice and his feet. You remember all the fuss being made about how fantastic MJ was alleged to be on June 24th? Wasn't that the MJ in te grey suit, teh one that performed TDRCAU? The lights are dimmed at the end of the performance and he has this sly smile on his face?
    Of course the faintest whisper that there might have been doubles made the fans go on the warpath, didn't it?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDB8hUF5U98&feature=fvwrel

    It is interesting what you say about the MJ in the silver jacket, Empathy. I guess for an illusion to work really well it is best to Mindfreak us- sometimes it is MJ, sometimes a double but they are both wearing IDENTICAL outfits. This confuses us as we start looking for indications of differences since we are more inclined to perhaps say orange pants is one version and silver jacket another.

    Fascinating and ingenious- not to mention quite a Thriller!

    Queen of cats rendeer

    Lemonbread

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  Lemonbread on Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:21 pm

    I guess now its the need of one that outweighs the needs of many. In Michael's dancing life/entertainment life it was always the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the one. So now the table is turn.
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    butterfly

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    Re: THIS IS IT

    Post  butterfly on Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:54 pm

    Lemonbread wrote:I guess now its the need of one that outweighs the needs of many. In Michael's dancing life/entertainment life it was always the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the one. So now the table is turn.


    Sounds good enough to me... sunny

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